Cursor Issues to be resolved

[Christian Stocker]

Hi

I'll try to resolve today some of the issues mentioned with the cursor.
Here's my annonance list, please complete it, if i forgot something.

- Hitting space should insert a "visible" space.. (not sure what should
happen, if i hit space twice or more. IMHO[1] it should only insert one
space, or at least only show one space. CTRL+space could be used for
insert  )

- Hitting return should insert a "visible" new line, before i write
something on the new line...

- No blinking cursor outside of editable fields.

- home should go to the start of line (sorry, not possible, start of
editable field could be possible..)

chregu
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[Sandro Zic]

Post by Christian Stocker
- home should go to the start of line (sorry, not possible, start of
editable field could be possible..)

That's fine.

In general: thanks a lot for your efforts, we highly appreciate your work!

Sandro

[holger krekel]

[Christian Stocker Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 11:12:32AM +0200]

Post by Christian Stocker
I'll try to resolve today some of the issues mentioned with the cursor.
Here's my annonance list, please complete it, if i forgot something.
- Hitting space should insert a "visible" space.. (not sure what should
happen, if i hit space twice or more. IMHO[1] it should only insert one
space, or at least only show one space. CTRL+space could be used for
insert  )
- Hitting return should insert a "visible" new line, before i write
something on the new line...
- No blinking cursor outside of editable fields.
- home should go to the start of line (sorry, not possible, start of
editable field could be possible..)

these are currently the most important points regarding the cursor.
great that you work on it.

I'd still be interested in your oppinion on the cross-browserability
of caret-browsing, though. ASFAIK it's very hard but hopefully you have
better news :-)

regards,

holger

[Christian Stocker]

Post by holger krekel
[Christian Stocker Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 11:12:32AM +0200]

Post by Christian Stocker
I'll try to resolve today some of the issues mentioned with the cursor.
Here's my annonance list, please complete it, if i forgot something.
- Hitting space should insert a "visible" space.. (not sure what should
happen, if i hit space twice or more. IMHO[1] it should only insert one
space, or at least only show one space. CTRL+space could be used for
insert  )
- Hitting return should insert a "visible" new line, before i write
something on the new line...
- No blinking cursor outside of editable fields.
- home should go to the start of line (sorry, not possible, start of
editable field could be possible..)

these are currently the most important points regarding the cursor.
great that you work on it.
I'd still be interested in your oppinion on the cross-browserability
of caret-browsing, though. ASFAIK it's very hard but hopefully you have
better news :-)

Maybe we should stop talking about cross-browserbility and introduce the
more accurate word dual-browserability.... For the foreseeable future,
BXE will not work on anything other than Mozilla/Gecko and MSIE6 based
browsers, therefore we just have to take those to codebases into
account. And MSIE has contentEditable, which should be enough to have a
decent cursor.

chregu

[Michael Slattery]

I am in favor of scope reduction in terms of browser support.

The rest will sound like scope explosion, or at least a swap-out:

I still think the short term solution for the cursor is not to try and
develop a fake cursor in parallel with the moz efforts.
For all of the xopus efforts, their contentEditable doesn't do what
this group wants.

I believe Christian can get a cursor working, but I feel that if Moz is
promising something as well, then we should all burn our calories on
something else.

My personal favorite: let's improve the pop-up supplemental forms we
already use! Efforts here will be useful even after the browsers fix
the cursor.

I think the short term solution is to use pop-up forms the way
callistocms works. I know it is a touch more clumsy, but we can give
the user the option to toggle between in-line and pop-up editing, and
it is still 500% better than a conventional web app, with all the
latency and reloads.

The forms based solution could be carved out in a few weeks, it would
be much more stable and predictable, and could kept on as an alternate
or supplemental interface, even after the contentEditable control
becomes real.

The main trade off is that in-line is more elegant when content is
being entered in a serial fashion - the idea of the default or 'give me
this element next after I get out of this one' behavior is brilliant!

The pop-up forms is more efficient when trying to relocate an
individual element, for example, or changing the element type.
Already we have to popup secondary forms when metadata or additional
content is needed, like images or links. So adding the content to
primary elements in a pop-up isn't that big a leap.



Please try out
http://admin.demo.callistocms.com/.cms/
demo:demo

and tell me what you like and hate about it. I will dig in and help to
get the pop-ups working if there is buy-in here.

Post by Christian Stocker

Post by holger krekel
[Christian Stocker Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 11:12:32AM +0200]

Post by Christian Stocker
I'll try to resolve today some of the issues mentioned with the cursor.
Here's my annonance list, please complete it, if i forgot something.
- Hitting space should insert a "visible" space.. (not sure what should
happen, if i hit space twice or more. IMHO[1] it should only insert one
space, or at least only show one space. CTRL+space could be used for
insert  )
- Hitting return should insert a "visible" new line, before i write
something on the new line...
- No blinking cursor outside of editable fields.
- home should go to the start of line (sorry, not possible, start of
editable field could be possible..)

these are currently the most important points regarding the cursor.
great that you work on it.
I'd still be interested in your oppinion on the cross-browserability
of caret-browsing, though. ASFAIK it's very hard but hopefully you have
better news :-)

Maybe we should stop talking about cross-browserbility and introduce the
more accurate word dual-browserability.... For the foreseeable future,
BXE will not work on anything other than Mozilla/Gecko and MSIE6 based
browsers, therefore we just have to take those to codebases into
account. And MSIE has contentEditable, which should be enough to have a
decent cursor.
chregu
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[Christian Stocker]

Post by Michael Slattery
I am in favor of scope reduction in terms of browser support.

in the really short term, we will only support mozilla...

Post by Michael Slattery
I still think the short term solution for the cursor is not to try and
develop a fake cursor in parallel with the moz efforts.
For all of the xopus efforts, their contentEditable doesn't do what
this group wants.
I believe Christian can get a cursor working, but I feel that if Moz is
promising something as well, then we should all burn our calories on
something else.

It will take at least another 3 months until 1.3 is out and i'm not sure
if contentEditable will be in that until then.. This is too long for a
lot of people...

Post by Michael Slattery
My personal favorite: let's improve the pop-up supplemental forms we
already use! Efforts here will be useful even after the browsers fix
the cursor.
I think the short term solution is to use pop-up forms the way
callistocms works. I know it is a touch more clumsy, but we can give
the user the option to toggle between in-line and pop-up editing, and
it is still 500% better than a conventional web app, with all the
latency and reloads.

You're demo is really nice (still too much reloads IMHO :) ) and BXE has
something similiar with "Edit Source", if we could do that nicer/better
integrated, this would be a great help for a lot of people (thinking of
"slow computers" for example :) ). On the other hand, we want a WYSIWYG
Editor and callistocms' solution is near on that, but not what we're
dreaming about, therefore putting our resources in that is not something
we'd really like to do. But as the code is already out there, it would
maybe not be a big task... And all this doesn't mean, it can't be
integrated in BXE and with a nice switch to turn it on/off, it shouldn't
disturb anyone.

chregu

Post by Michael Slattery
The main trade off is that in-line is more elegant when content is
being entered in a serial fashion - the idea of the default or 'give me
this element next after I get out of this one' behavior is brilliant!
The pop-up forms is more efficient when trying to relocate an
individual element, for example, or changing the element type.
Already we have to popup secondary forms when metadata or additional
content is needed, like images or links. So adding the content to
primary elements in a pop-up isn't that big a leap.
Please try out
http://admin.demo.callistocms.com/.cms/
demo:demo
and tell me what you like and hate about it. I will dig in and help to
get the pop-ups working if there is buy-in here.

[Michael Slattery]

OK, points taken.

To be clear though, I am not involved in the callisto project! I'm
just a fan.

Mike

Post by Christian Stocker

Post by Michael Slattery
I am in favor of scope reduction in terms of browser support.

in the really short term, we will only support mozilla...

Post by Michael Slattery
I still think the short term solution for the cursor is not to try and
develop a fake cursor in parallel with the moz efforts.
For all of the xopus efforts, their contentEditable doesn't do what
this group wants.
I believe Christian can get a cursor working, but I feel that if Moz is
promising something as well, then we should all burn our calories on
something else.

It will take at least another 3 months until 1.3 is out and i'm not sure
if contentEditable will be in that until then.. This is too long for a
lot of people...

Post by Michael Slattery
My personal favorite: let's improve the pop-up supplemental forms we
already use! Efforts here will be useful even after the browsers fix
the cursor.
I think the short term solution is to use pop-up forms the way
callistocms works. I know it is a touch more clumsy, but we can give
the user the option to toggle between in-line and pop-up editing, and
it is still 500% better than a conventional web app, with all the
latency and reloads.

You're demo is really nice (still too much reloads IMHO :) ) and BXE has
something similiar with "Edit Source", if we could do that nicer/better
integrated, this would be a great help for a lot of people (thinking of
"slow computers" for example :) ). On the other hand, we want a WYSIWYG
Editor and callistocms' solution is near on that, but not what we're
dreaming about, therefore putting our resources in that is not
something
we'd really like to do. But as the code is already out there, it would
maybe not be a big task... And all this doesn't mean, it can't be
integrated in BXE and with a nice switch to turn it on/off, it
shouldn't
disturb anyone.
chregu

Post by Michael Slattery
The main trade off is that in-line is more elegant when content is
being entered in a serial fashion - the idea of the default or 'give me
this element next after I get out of this one' behavior is brilliant!
The pop-up forms is more efficient when trying to relocate an
individual element, for example, or changing the element type.
Already we have to popup secondary forms when metadata or additional
content is needed, like images or links. So adding the content to
primary elements in a pop-up isn't that big a leap.
Please try out
http://admin.demo.callistocms.com/.cms/
demo:demo
and tell me what you like and hate about it. I will dig in and help to
get the pop-ups working if there is buy-in here.

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